Post by Summoner on May 31, 2020 15:35:51 GMT
(Original thread by Pyrus)
These are a collection of "rules" made by a very knowledgeable fellow DBZ debater, p123 (who has an account here but is not active). A lot of us have probably used these rules before without really thinking about it, and this section is pretty damn active, so I thought this would be a good thing to have here. The only thing I added was the small extension at the end of the last rule.
Note: There is always an exception to a rule, but for the most part, these work very nicely. In the words of p123: "Doesn't mean it has to be this way, every single time, but it should be this way, damn near every single time..."
The Golden Rules
Rule Number 1
All character statements are true, unless proven wrong, and are of equal value.
This just means that the author is using the character as a tool for his story, period. Whatever habitual performances said character has, has no relevance on if the character is right/wrong. If the character is right, nothing will contradict his statement. If the character is wrong, he is only wrong, because he has been proven wrong, or has been contradicted.
All statements are of equal value. When dealing with power, unless comments directly contradict each other, they should be used together. For instance, one quote suggest that Character A is >> Character B, and another comment suggests Character A ~ Character B, we should end up with the thought process that Character A > Character B is the fairest approach, taking both statements into account and splitting the difference, so to speak.
Rule Number 2
Always assume full power.
Assume full power for all serious fights, and if they are not at full power, AT will mention it. Just trust him. This works.
Rule Number 3
All power gaps for fights should be determined by percentage, not just numbers.
This is just too logical to even have to explain.
Rule Number 4
Assume the gaps are similar from one fight to the next. For instance, Gohan beats on Super Buu, and Buutenks beats on Gohan.
A > B > C by the same general spacing.
So for instance....
Buutenks 20
Gohan 14
Gotenks 10
Super Buu 10
As you can see, Super is roughly 70% of Gohan, and Gohan is roughly 70% of Buutenks. This is a good basis to start from, and then let your personal opinion push it one way or the other. It's a good starting place, and the closer you stick to it, the better off (IMO of course).
Also as you can see, this chart is based off of the percentages, and not just number spacing.
Number spacing would require Gohan to be +5 of Super Buu, and Buutenks to be +5 of Gohan, but when you break that down percentage-wise, that would make Gohan > Super Buu gap superior to Buutenks > Gohan gap, which we want to stay away from, at least when starting out.
Rule Number 5
Try to be as unbiased as possible!
Try to take exactly what the manga gives you, and try to stay away from baseless assumptions (read: conjecture) as often as possible. You should limit your personal opinion as much as you can, and allow the manga and only the manga to dictate what you think is being implied! Unpopular / Popular Theories in the fandom mean nothing in light of what the manga implies or does not. AT did not ask fans if they approved or disapproved of things prior to writing them, so don't limit yourself to think only as the fandom thinks. There are many, many, many plausible options, some which are more likely than the others. Try to go with the most likely scenario, and interpret the scenario as you think AT meant it to be, and not how you think it should be. Take what is given, and nothing else. If a scenario is not suggested by the manga at that time, and is not suggested to be a factor, then it should not be a factor!
The guidebooks and filler are great sources of information, but at the end of the day the manga is above all, and all other sources are considered non-canon; therefore, not nearly as relevant as many will lead you to believe. The opinions of the guidebooks and filler are no better than yours, and should be treated as just an opinion regardless that they have official backing. This stuff is not rocket science, and anyone willing to learn and view the manga the way it should be, does not need a source with official backing that's not the manga to tell them anything, at least regarding battle powers.
As an extension of this rule, guidebooks should be used to support an argument - not make one. In other words, if you can't build an argument using anything other than an entry from a guidebook, you're probably better off rethinking your argument and going at it from a different angle. This will enable whatever debate you're in to progress without the typical mindset that involves using guidebooks, which usually stems off into another debate altogether.
Keep in mind that guidebooks and filler are not in the same category when it comes to debates either; filler is basically fluff added to the anime by Toei Animation to give the manga time to catch up or keep ahead, while guidebooks were closely involved with Akira Toriyama and his staff.
These are a collection of "rules" made by a very knowledgeable fellow DBZ debater, p123 (who has an account here but is not active). A lot of us have probably used these rules before without really thinking about it, and this section is pretty damn active, so I thought this would be a good thing to have here. The only thing I added was the small extension at the end of the last rule.
Note: There is always an exception to a rule, but for the most part, these work very nicely. In the words of p123: "Doesn't mean it has to be this way, every single time, but it should be this way, damn near every single time..."
The Golden Rules
Rule Number 1
All character statements are true, unless proven wrong, and are of equal value.
This just means that the author is using the character as a tool for his story, period. Whatever habitual performances said character has, has no relevance on if the character is right/wrong. If the character is right, nothing will contradict his statement. If the character is wrong, he is only wrong, because he has been proven wrong, or has been contradicted.
All statements are of equal value. When dealing with power, unless comments directly contradict each other, they should be used together. For instance, one quote suggest that Character A is >> Character B, and another comment suggests Character A ~ Character B, we should end up with the thought process that Character A > Character B is the fairest approach, taking both statements into account and splitting the difference, so to speak.
Rule Number 2
Always assume full power.
Assume full power for all serious fights, and if they are not at full power, AT will mention it. Just trust him. This works.
Rule Number 3
All power gaps for fights should be determined by percentage, not just numbers.
This is just too logical to even have to explain.
Rule Number 4
Assume the gaps are similar from one fight to the next. For instance, Gohan beats on Super Buu, and Buutenks beats on Gohan.
A > B > C by the same general spacing.
So for instance....
Buutenks 20
Gohan 14
Gotenks 10
Super Buu 10
As you can see, Super is roughly 70% of Gohan, and Gohan is roughly 70% of Buutenks. This is a good basis to start from, and then let your personal opinion push it one way or the other. It's a good starting place, and the closer you stick to it, the better off (IMO of course).
Also as you can see, this chart is based off of the percentages, and not just number spacing.
Number spacing would require Gohan to be +5 of Super Buu, and Buutenks to be +5 of Gohan, but when you break that down percentage-wise, that would make Gohan > Super Buu gap superior to Buutenks > Gohan gap, which we want to stay away from, at least when starting out.
Rule Number 5
Try to be as unbiased as possible!
Try to take exactly what the manga gives you, and try to stay away from baseless assumptions (read: conjecture) as often as possible. You should limit your personal opinion as much as you can, and allow the manga and only the manga to dictate what you think is being implied! Unpopular / Popular Theories in the fandom mean nothing in light of what the manga implies or does not. AT did not ask fans if they approved or disapproved of things prior to writing them, so don't limit yourself to think only as the fandom thinks. There are many, many, many plausible options, some which are more likely than the others. Try to go with the most likely scenario, and interpret the scenario as you think AT meant it to be, and not how you think it should be. Take what is given, and nothing else. If a scenario is not suggested by the manga at that time, and is not suggested to be a factor, then it should not be a factor!
The guidebooks and filler are great sources of information, but at the end of the day the manga is above all, and all other sources are considered non-canon; therefore, not nearly as relevant as many will lead you to believe. The opinions of the guidebooks and filler are no better than yours, and should be treated as just an opinion regardless that they have official backing. This stuff is not rocket science, and anyone willing to learn and view the manga the way it should be, does not need a source with official backing that's not the manga to tell them anything, at least regarding battle powers.
As an extension of this rule, guidebooks should be used to support an argument - not make one. In other words, if you can't build an argument using anything other than an entry from a guidebook, you're probably better off rethinking your argument and going at it from a different angle. This will enable whatever debate you're in to progress without the typical mindset that involves using guidebooks, which usually stems off into another debate altogether.
Keep in mind that guidebooks and filler are not in the same category when it comes to debates either; filler is basically fluff added to the anime by Toei Animation to give the manga time to catch up or keep ahead, while guidebooks were closely involved with Akira Toriyama and his staff.